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	<title>Comments for shouting loudly</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 20:19:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Lessons from the Crash of Americans Elect by jkd</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/05/15/lessons-from-the-crash-of-americans-elect/comment-page-1/#comment-110241</link>
		<dc:creator>jkd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 20:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1458#comment-110241</guid>
		<description>&quot;Americans Elect had a budget of between $35 and $40 million dollars over the past two years.  Much of that was donated by centrists interested in reforming the two party system.  That’s 30 or 40 times larger than the annual budget of FairVote.org/The Center for Voting and Democracy (&lt;$500,000 per year).  FairVote is the leading electoral reform organization in America.  It has been running a promising state-based campaign for the National Popular Vote for years, and is well-respected among researchers who conduct electoral systems research.  I imagine that FairVote with a 40-fold increase in their budget could probably find a better use for the money than building a third-party candidacy for a yet-to-be-named candidate.&quot;

Yes, well, that&#039;s assuming that Americans Elect was a good-faith effort at electoral reform and not an exercise in narcissism and nepotism, engineered in large part to funnel money to consultants. Or am I being too cynical?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Americans Elect had a budget of between $35 and $40 million dollars over the past two years.  Much of that was donated by centrists interested in reforming the two party system.  That’s 30 or 40 times larger than the annual budget of FairVote.org/The Center for Voting and Democracy (&lt;$500,000 per year).  FairVote is the leading electoral reform organization in America.  It has been running a promising state-based campaign for the National Popular Vote for years, and is well-respected among researchers who conduct electoral systems research.  I imagine that FairVote with a 40-fold increase in their budget could probably find a better use for the money than building a third-party candidacy for a yet-to-be-named candidate.&quot;</p>
<p>Yes, well, that&#039;s assuming that Americans Elect was a good-faith effort at electoral reform and not an exercise in narcissism and nepotism, engineered in large part to funnel money to consultants. Or am I being too cynical?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Leaving Rutgers, Joining GWU by Mor</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/05/11/leaving-rutgers-joining-gwu/comment-page-1/#comment-110229</link>
		<dc:creator>Mor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 20:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1456#comment-110229</guid>
		<description>Sorry to see you leave, Dave. Best of luck in DC!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to see you leave, Dave. Best of luck in DC!</p>
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		<title>Comment on NBC and the End of the Broadcast Era by Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/05/11/nbc-end-of-broadcast-era/comment-page-1/#comment-110228</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 20:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1453#comment-110228</guid>
		<description>Nice post, Dave!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post, Dave!</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Shut It Down&#8221; and Learning from Past Experience by Bob Boynton</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/04/19/shut-it-down-and-learning-from-past-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-110200</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Boynton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1441#comment-110200</guid>
		<description>You stopped before you finished the story. There were demonstrations at the G8 meetings that so embarrassed the leaders that they moved to the Canadian wilderness for a meeting. The protestors could not get there -- so no confrontation for the media to reproduce. There are many ways to keep the &#039;ruffians&#039; in their place. Almost all of them are ways to keep the confrontation out of the media.

The Teaparty succeeded with, if anything, less organization than the Occupy people. But it seems to me that they succeeded because there were candidates who were well funded and it was an off year election when the party of the president &#039;always&#039; loses seats. 

The candidates who are ready to carry the Occupy message this year are women. They are not as ideological as the Teaparty winners, but the 99 versus 1 means more to them than to many male candidates. The Republicans &#039;war on women&#039; has &#039;helped&#039; a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You stopped before you finished the story. There were demonstrations at the G8 meetings that so embarrassed the leaders that they moved to the Canadian wilderness for a meeting. The protestors could not get there &#8212; so no confrontation for the media to reproduce. There are many ways to keep the &#8216;ruffians&#8217; in their place. Almost all of them are ways to keep the confrontation out of the media.</p>
<p>The Teaparty succeeded with, if anything, less organization than the Occupy people. But it seems to me that they succeeded because there were candidates who were well funded and it was an off year election when the party of the president &#8216;always&#8217; loses seats. </p>
<p>The candidates who are ready to carry the Occupy message this year are women. They are not as ideological as the Teaparty winners, but the 99 versus 1 means more to them than to many male candidates. The Republicans &#8216;war on women&#8217; has &#8216;helped&#8217; a lot.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ablogalypse and Internet Time by David Karpf</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/04/16/ablogalypse-and-internet-time/comment-page-1/#comment-110199</link>
		<dc:creator>David Karpf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1436#comment-110199</guid>
		<description>aaaand that may explain why I liked the empirics in your paper so much!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aaaand that may explain why I liked the empirics in your paper so much!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ablogalypse and Internet Time by April</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/04/16/ablogalypse-and-internet-time/comment-page-1/#comment-110197</link>
		<dc:creator>April</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 22:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1436#comment-110197</guid>
		<description>I think you just described my thesis when you wrote about &quot;embracing the messiness&quot;. I agree, of course, and feel most authentic observing the world from this vantage point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you just described my thesis when you wrote about &#8220;embracing the messiness&#8221;. I agree, of course, and feel most authentic observing the world from this vantage point.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What the hell is the National Association of Scholars? by David House</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/04/04/what-the-hell-is-the-national-association-of-scholars/comment-page-1/#comment-110192</link>
		<dc:creator>David House</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1433#comment-110192</guid>
		<description>After reading the article (“How California’s Colleges Indoctrinate Students.”), which appears to have triggered this related blog article(?), I too was extremely curious as to just who the California Association of Scholars actually were. Like all good modern day associations, who really don&#039;t want their identities/agendas to be easily known, they turned out to be a division of the &#039;National Association of Scholars&#039;, who in their own right are a bit vague in identifying themselves, and what they represent. 
It didn&#039;t take a lot research, however, to determine their right wing leaning status/agenda. That, of course did not really surprise me. The fact that they have carefully groomed themselves to appear as a politically/socially concerned organization, looking out for the welfare of Americans everywhere, also did not surprise me. I&#039;ve seen this sort of thing already in very pervasive numbers, and of course usually tied to organizations affiliated with far right conservative agendas, such as &#039;creative intelligent design&#039;, etc.

What was really spooky however, was when I went to trace the NAS a bit further, and found them involved with things such as a Supreme Court case (regarding minority affirmative action in college admissions [you guess which side they were on]}, where they used numerous research articles, from seemingly forthright academic institutions, to support their arguments. The spooky part is not that they were involved in such arguments, that was to be expected. The spooky part was when you go a bit deeper and research the institutions/academies behind the research articles, quoted by the NAS in their arguments, and you find what could be considered a somewhat scary, and very well organized web of right wing academies/institutes, with no further apparent purpose than to support modern day far right ideologies, and whose research articles are anything but scientifically based. The whole thing sort of makes the Illuminate look like a bunch of disorganized Cub Scouts.

If there is anything to be really concerned about, it would be this seemingly vast web of right wing groups hiding behind seemingly innocuous titles/mission statements that appear to actually portray them as liberal to middle of the road organizations. Nothing like truth in advertising.

But, hey, back to the main point here. If you want a really good retort to the recent CAS report, I came across the following, which went well beyond any expectation I had for finding something of its nature, and I do mean well beyond. My hat is off to them. http://academeblog.org/2012/04/03/a-crisis-of-censorship-a-response-to-the-national-association-of-scholars/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading the article (“How California’s Colleges Indoctrinate Students.”), which appears to have triggered this related blog article(?), I too was extremely curious as to just who the California Association of Scholars actually were. Like all good modern day associations, who really don&#8217;t want their identities/agendas to be easily known, they turned out to be a division of the &#8216;National Association of Scholars&#8217;, who in their own right are a bit vague in identifying themselves, and what they represent.<br />
It didn&#8217;t take a lot research, however, to determine their right wing leaning status/agenda. That, of course did not really surprise me. The fact that they have carefully groomed themselves to appear as a politically/socially concerned organization, looking out for the welfare of Americans everywhere, also did not surprise me. I&#8217;ve seen this sort of thing already in very pervasive numbers, and of course usually tied to organizations affiliated with far right conservative agendas, such as &#8216;creative intelligent design&#8217;, etc.</p>
<p>What was really spooky however, was when I went to trace the NAS a bit further, and found them involved with things such as a Supreme Court case (regarding minority affirmative action in college admissions [you guess which side they were on]}, where they used numerous research articles, from seemingly forthright academic institutions, to support their arguments. The spooky part is not that they were involved in such arguments, that was to be expected. The spooky part was when you go a bit deeper and research the institutions/academies behind the research articles, quoted by the NAS in their arguments, and you find what could be considered a somewhat scary, and very well organized web of right wing academies/institutes, with no further apparent purpose than to support modern day far right ideologies, and whose research articles are anything but scientifically based. The whole thing sort of makes the Illuminate look like a bunch of disorganized Cub Scouts.</p>
<p>If there is anything to be really concerned about, it would be this seemingly vast web of right wing groups hiding behind seemingly innocuous titles/mission statements that appear to actually portray them as liberal to middle of the road organizations. Nothing like truth in advertising.</p>
<p>But, hey, back to the main point here. If you want a really good retort to the recent CAS report, I came across the following, which went well beyond any expectation I had for finding something of its nature, and I do mean well beyond. My hat is off to them. <a href="http://academeblog.org/2012/04/03/a-crisis-of-censorship-a-response-to-the-national-association-of-scholars/" rel="nofollow">http://academeblog.org/2012/04/03/a-crisis-of-censorship-a-response-to-the-national-association-of-scholars/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on What the hell is the National Association of Scholars? by Steven Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/04/04/what-the-hell-is-the-national-association-of-scholars/comment-page-1/#comment-110191</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1433#comment-110191</guid>
		<description>David,
Thank you for the research and subsequent blog. The fact that there are organizations that continue to represent rational discourse and research while having already arrived at a conclusion before beginning is nothing new. The most insidious events of this however are the ripple effects down through the different media outlets. My local newspaper picked this up and reported it as gospel. Some will investigate this as I did, but many will just accept it. By the way, nice handling of the troll. Trolls can be so cute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />
Thank you for the research and subsequent blog. The fact that there are organizations that continue to represent rational discourse and research while having already arrived at a conclusion before beginning is nothing new. The most insidious events of this however are the ripple effects down through the different media outlets. My local newspaper picked this up and reported it as gospel. Some will investigate this as I did, but many will just accept it. By the way, nice handling of the troll. Trolls can be so cute.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What the hell is the National Association of Scholars? by David Karpf</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/04/04/what-the-hell-is-the-national-association-of-scholars/comment-page-1/#comment-110179</link>
		<dc:creator>David Karpf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 18:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1433#comment-110179</guid>
		<description>Oh cool, a troll!  Hi, troll.

To clarify/feed-the-trolls, I didn&#039;t say that the report &quot;MUST be false.&quot;  I said that the problems I hear about from University of California professors stem from the defunding of higher ed.  That&#039;s a series of factually true statements: (1) I don&#039;t teach in the Cal system (so I don&#039;t have firsthand knowledge), (2) I do hear about Cal system problems from friends, and (3) those problems are unrelated to the subject of this report.

The narrative purpose of that passage was to highlight the disconnect.  I&#039;m a scholar.  I know California scholars.  They&#039;ve never mentioned this issue.  So this report, coming from the &quot;California Association of Scholars,&quot; leads me to wonder &quot;hmm, who is the California Association of Scholars?&quot;

I&#039;m not sure where you reached the conclusion that this blog post was a critique &lt;strong&gt;of the report.&lt;/strong&gt;*  The title of the post is &quot;What the hell is the National Association of Scholars?&quot;  The topic of the post is about this organization that I had never heard of, and how it clearly has engaged in some... creative self-naming.  The conclusion of the post is that such self-naming is dishonest, and runs counter to their own mission statement.  So, please explain further: how and why do you feel the critique is poorly constructed?

*Yes I am.  You&#039;re a troll.  You reached that conclusion because its the trolly thing to do.**
**See, THAT was an ad hominem.  My critique of the organization, notsomuch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh cool, a troll!  Hi, troll.</p>
<p>To clarify/feed-the-trolls, I didn&#8217;t say that the report &#8220;MUST be false.&#8221;  I said that the problems I hear about from University of California professors stem from the defunding of higher ed.  That&#8217;s a series of factually true statements: (1) I don&#8217;t teach in the Cal system (so I don&#8217;t have firsthand knowledge), (2) I do hear about Cal system problems from friends, and (3) those problems are unrelated to the subject of this report.</p>
<p>The narrative purpose of that passage was to highlight the disconnect.  I&#8217;m a scholar.  I know California scholars.  They&#8217;ve never mentioned this issue.  So this report, coming from the &#8220;California Association of Scholars,&#8221; leads me to wonder &#8220;hmm, who is the California Association of Scholars?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure where you reached the conclusion that this blog post was a critique <strong>of the report.</strong>*  The title of the post is &#8220;What the hell is the National Association of Scholars?&#8221;  The topic of the post is about this organization that I had never heard of, and how it clearly has engaged in some&#8230; creative self-naming.  The conclusion of the post is that such self-naming is dishonest, and runs counter to their own mission statement.  So, please explain further: how and why do you feel the critique is poorly constructed?</p>
<p>*Yes I am.  You&#8217;re a troll.  You reached that conclusion because its the trolly thing to do.**<br />
**See, THAT was an ad hominem.  My critique of the organization, notsomuch.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What the hell is the National Association of Scholars? by Jared</title>
		<link>http://www.shoutingloudly.com/2012/04/04/what-the-hell-is-the-national-association-of-scholars/comment-page-1/#comment-110178</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 18:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shoutingloudly.com/?p=1433#comment-110178</guid>
		<description>I was googling this group and had the misfortune of stumbling upon this poorly constructed critique. I was actually mildly interested in your eventual forthcoming opinion, an opinion that inevitably was never created. I think readers would take your column more seriously if you directed your energy away from the Ad Hominem attacks on the organization, and focused them on the content of the report. I made the mistake of reading and reading and reading, waiting diligently for the moment in which you would take the major topics of the report and analyze them. Such an analysis never occurred. I have not read the report myself, but have since become more intrigued since punishing my eyes with this elementary opinion. 

P.S. I got a great laugh after you briefly concluded the conclusion of the report MUST be false considering you have a couple of friends involved in the UC system. Scientists like yourself CERTAINLY know that a couple of examples out of an incredibly large sample group without a doubt constitute an accurate an accurate analysis.

A+ friendo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was googling this group and had the misfortune of stumbling upon this poorly constructed critique. I was actually mildly interested in your eventual forthcoming opinion, an opinion that inevitably was never created. I think readers would take your column more seriously if you directed your energy away from the Ad Hominem attacks on the organization, and focused them on the content of the report. I made the mistake of reading and reading and reading, waiting diligently for the moment in which you would take the major topics of the report and analyze them. Such an analysis never occurred. I have not read the report myself, but have since become more intrigued since punishing my eyes with this elementary opinion. </p>
<p>P.S. I got a great laugh after you briefly concluded the conclusion of the report MUST be false considering you have a couple of friends involved in the UC system. Scientists like yourself CERTAINLY know that a couple of examples out of an incredibly large sample group without a doubt constitute an accurate an accurate analysis.</p>
<p>A+ friendo.</p>
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